any opinions It was pretty much identical to a saginaw except built heavier. Turn engine over by hand and have a friend look at the driveshaft mark and tell you when it makes 1 revolution. 1967-1969 Camaro Transmission Code Format (except TH400 and B-W 3-speed) Trans Code Format: tymdds where: t = transmission type MANUAL AUTOMATIC S = Saginaw 3-speed A = 68/69 L6 Torque-Drive K = McKinnon 3-speed C = Cleveland Powerglide H = 69 Muncie HD 3-speed T = Toledo Powerglide R = 4-speed Saginaw B = Cleveland TH350 Also call us if you are ordering large items like race car bodies as those are hard for the freight system to calculate sometimes and it will overestimate. JavaScript is disabled. 0 Most final drives in the mid 50's was near 3.20-3.30 range and remember the speed limit was 55. i have been following this thread because i would like to put a lower gear in my tranny. I remember the day my dad crawled underneath it the first time and saw the FoMoCo written on the side of the trans. The reverse ratio was 3.15:1. Adobe InDesign CC 2017 (Macintosh) either that or you need your tach recalibrated. To complete your return, we require a receipt or proof of purchase. Must have worked out pretty well, he was running high 10's back then and he was one of the fastest cars at the track that year. We promise it wasnt intended as any sort of slight to the excluded GM-made transmissions.]. The NV4500 was in HD 3/4 and 1 ton application. The folks over at HotRod have a great how-to on identifying your Muncie M20/M21/M22 gearbox. EX. 351TRAN SAGINAW TRANSMISSION - 3 SPD 351-189-3 Line. i am running 4.56 rear gears with 15" tires. Learn how your comment data is processed. I beat on a Ford style three speed all synchro for years. The MC1 was offered on 1969 Chevelles (350 V8-up versions used the 2.42:1 low), not at all in 1970, then in 71-72 just behind 402 in Chevelles (rare). Then someone jury rigged it in there. They should be like 4.11 or a little under [3.73] which would give you overall ratio 12.08 in 1st gear and 2.87 in 3rd OD..Lets say your rear tires are 27" diameter, that would give you 2507 rpm @ 70 mph with 4.11 gears..2256 rpm with 3.73 gears giving 2.61 overall in 3rd OD.. You might be able to find a 7 bolt side cover Saginaw 3 speed with lower gears, and they would be quite a bit stronger than the old Muncie 318 transmission you currently have. Newest [ January 23, 2023 ] Vintage 1980 Yamaha Enticer Snowmobile Revival to Former Glory Roadkill Powersports Saginaw Three-Speed Type First Gear Second Gear Third Gear Saginaw Four-Speed Type First Gear Second Gear Third Gear Fourth Gear T-5 Five-Speed (Camaro/Firebird) Type First Gear Second Gear Third Gear Fourth Gear Fifth Gear T-56 Six-Speed (Camaro/Firebird) Type First Gear Second Gear Third Gear Fourth Gear Fifth Gear Sixth Gear Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by bobg1951chevy, Apr 30, 2016. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. House Industries Modify your shift linkage to fit the tranny, use an OD cable for reverse. 312180356 It must also be in the original packaging. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. So how do you tell if its an M20 or M21? We'll work to keep you motivated and informed and with industry news, product information and reviews, event coverage, and well-curated articles and stories intended to inspire and educate. Some products are made to order to spec and will ship once built. Drag Racing 101 ~ Everything You Need to Know! Saginaw 3 & 4 Spd: Transmission Yokes: M5R1 / M5R2: Clutch Packs . Radio, remote mirror, and radial tires. The special 3-speed H.D. Please do not send your purchase back to the manufacturer. AgencyFB-Regular If you receive a refund, the cost of return shipping will be deducted from your refund. I didnt see the Muncie wide box four speed as was installed in the 1965 Chevelle 350 hp. 0 Saginaw three-speed transmissions featured gear ratios of 2.85:1 for first, 1.68:1 for second and 1.00:1 for third when matched with L6 in-line six-cylinder engines. rear tire should be somewhere between 29.5 to 31. im thinkin it should be a decent all around setup as there will be alot of highway driving goin on, but i still want a decent bottom end. We accept returns for up to 30 days from the purchase date. 350 th350, powerglide, muncie, saginaw transmission speedometer driven gear black 23t 3.55 ratio (3860346) tpd pro-line. Strange mix I know but bought off the lot that way. etc. Here are some common transmisions with gear charts. Identification and ratio information is provide below these groves are typically cut across the clutch spline on the input shaft: 3 Speeds have 4 step cluster gear, all gears helical cut, including reverse with two shifter cams in the side cover. Why not just get TALLER tires? Anyway, it was a side loader just like the saginaw. OpenType - PS . What is the RPO code for a 3-speed transmission? * Any item that is returned more than 30 days after delivery. I am Butch/56sedandelivery. If I had to grab 3d while we were still even I lost. Required fields are marked *. If no transmission option was selected, this was the transmission installed. Exchanges (if applicable)We only replace items if they are defective or damaged, or if we made the mistake. A Saginaw with NO lines on the input shaft has a 2.85 first gear, 1.68 second, third is direct; 1 line is 2.43, second 1.50, and third direct; 2 lines is 3.11, second 1.84, and third direct, and lastly, 3 lines 3.50 first, 1.89 second, and third direct. Meanwhile, Pontiac, Oldsmobile & Buick were using the Dearborn 303 RAT, a version of the Ford toploader 3-speed that was GM version. That means youve either got the M20 Wide-Ratio, M21 Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie. The Muncie also has a 7 bolt side cover; however, the Muncie reverse lever is found in the extension housing and features an aluminum case. ALL of these older, 3 speed transmissions with OD have a Borg Warner overdrive unit attached to them, they are not Borg Warner transmissions, although one particular make (not GM) did use a Borg Warner transmission plus the Borg Warner OD. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Im not sure if this was also the h.d. Here are some common transmisions with gear charts Saginaw 3 speed 1st 2nd 3rd No lines 2.85 1.68 1.00 1 line 2.54 1.50 1.00 2 lines 3.11 1.84 1.00 3 lines 3.50 1.89 1.00 Click to expand. 0 3.55 geared and higher (numerically lower) cars used the wide ratio gearbox. Helvetica LT Std adobe:docid:indd:8cb252af-65b8-11e0-ab52-c56984a1fdef I think Ive ever only seen one truck that was equipped as such. Three grooves on the input shaft. TradeGothicLTStd-Light 0 Apparently they did, because I have an issue of a rare Diesel enthusiast magazine called Diesel Digest and it mentions the new 6.2L GM diesel engine in a 1981(?) For small-block V-8s, like the 350, the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1. NEVER seen a spec showing the Ford T&C in a mid size GM vehicle. Adobe Systems Just wondering how durable are the 3 speed Muncie trannies? Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by aceracer23, Jul 19, 2010. Click the link! Made up to Order. AgencyFB Terms of Service. 0 PART NUMBER 1 & 2nd RATIOS, 284TRAN SAGINAW TRANSMISSION 3 SPD 284-168 Ratios-No Line. However, 1973-77 Chevy Vegas used a Saginaw tranny with a 3.11 first gear, 2.20 second gear, 1.47 third gear, and the usual 1:1 fourth. Minion Pro Without OD's 8's had 3.31's and 6's had 3.55's. Mounted on the cover was the reverse shift lever. Depending on the time/day ordered and the product type. There are several gear ratios for the Saginaws. Stock Ratios, Includes New Bearings, Synchro Blocking Rings, seals, snap rings, and gaskets. at 2.85 1st gear, and a Borg Warner with a 2.94 1st gear ratio. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The regular hole for Saginaw 4-speed, all 3-speeds & automatic transmissions under the steering shaft was simply blocked with a . The base manual transmission for non-high-performance models and 67-8 SS350's was the Saginaw 3-speed, M15. Look at. Information and parts are provide for the following Transmission: Saginaw 4 Speed (RWD), an illustrated parts drawing is provided for the Saginaw 4 speed. Speedo Gear Chart. If you do want the OD then the easiest answer is getting another 9" chuck set up with 3.90, or 4.11 gears. 4-SPEED TRANSMISSION I.D. Muncie Four-Speed Gear Ratios: M20 Wide-Ratio . xmp.did:ed36c394-b627-4297-a1b0-84109fe7afd4 0 UnitedItalicCond-Black Finally caught a break NP440 / MY 6 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network. The wide-ratio Muncie 4-speed transmission was marketed under RPO M20. NVG stands for New Venture Gear. Copyright 2023 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Media, Drivetrain: Saginaw Four-Speed Manual Transmission. 0 Identification and ratio information is provide below these groves . Adobe InDesign CC 2017 (Macintosh) It's already a Corvette Muncie 318 transmission modified to a top shifter (Corvettes were geared a little better, and the Junior Stock guys used to use the Vette gears in the passenger car case. Hoonigan Founder and Pro Rally Driver Ken Block Dead at 55, Worlds MOST Unusual Cars Ever Made, Found In One Warehouse, Lower the Bar ~ Perfectionism is Ruining the Automotive Hobby, 1971 GMC COE Fire Truck to Ramp Truck Car Hauler Build, Roadkills Best (and Worst) Drag Strip Tests, How To Choose the Correct Drag Racing Tire, 25 Tools and Gift Ideas Under $15 From Harbor Freight You Need, The Myths And Realities Of Carburetor Sizing, The Inaugural No Name Nationals Drag Race & Burnout Contest Coverage, Lawn Mower Racing ~ The Worlds CHEAPEST Motorsport, Quick and Easy DIY Headliner for Less Than $20, 1928 Ford Model A Coupe Goes From Yard Art To Driver, How To Turn Railroad Track into a DIY Homemade Anvil, New Docu-Series from Rat Rod Magazine ~ American Rust, Finishing a Late Friends Handmade 1956 Baby Buick Special Mini Car, Best 3-Ton Floor Jack? The Muncie 3-speeds I've had were very much like Saggy 3-speeds; a little beefier maybe, but not much different overall. JavaScript is disabled. For long highway trips swap the 3.50 chuck back in. We will also notify you of the approval or rejection of your refund.If you are approved, then your refund will be processed, and a credit will automatically be applied to your credit card or original method of payment, within a certain amount of days. Reverse has an over-ride, and remains a single speed no matter what you do. No questions yet. xmp.id:69f80f3f-c697-4c96-b645-9f21767701f4 Thank you. Thats pretty short. Helvetica LT Std 0 More to follow, See Also: Transmission Cross Reference Database<br><ins class="adsbygoogle" style="display: block; text-align: center;" data-ad-layout="in-article" data-ad-format="fluid" data-ad-client="ca-pub-4890196604207780" data-ad-slot="3686040326"><br><script><br /> (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});<br />, An Online Magazine for DIY Hot Rod Builders. Wagner attended California State University, Los Angeles, and has a degree in journalism. My velle had been pretty well ran hard and put away wet when i got it in 86. TradeGothicLTStd-Cn18 CHART SAGINAW, G.M. 2.020 compare compare items. Good luck. Chevy used a Borg-Warner T-16 for their H.D. *Special cases might be returned to the manufacturer*, There are certain situations where only partial refunds are granted: (if applicable)* Book with obvious signs of use* Any item not in its original condition, that is damaged, or is missing parts for reasons not due to our error. For 1969 Chevrolet replaced the Warner T-16 with a new Muncie-built h.d. proof:pdf 3774165282 OpenType - PS Standard Saginaw 3-speed transmission Heavy Duty full synchromesh 3-speed Borg Warner T16 delivered as the standard transmission when the SS 396 series was ordered. Several types of goods are exempt from being returned. That took some work to do. applications (351, 390). It lists a Saginaw 3-spd. OpenType - PS What ratio are the rear end gears? Great for any type of race car that require a stock transmission. Adobe Systems 0 3-speed used in the light duty trucks (pickups etc). Saginaw 3 & 4 speed, GM T5, Powerglide, 200 & 350 transmissions. The most common Saginaw four speed is the wide ratio variety equipped with a 2.85 first gear, 2.02 second gear, 1.35 third gear, and a 1:1 fourth. ). "O" denoted the transmission was equipped with overdrive. For small-block V-8s, like the 350, the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1. Ford meanwhile used the 303 RAN & 303 RUG for use on their various H.D. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 590 hp 600 tq, RV T-400 Freakshow 3200 stall, 3.73 12 bolt posi, Get in the Chevelle and turn back the Clock 45 years. Rebuilt Saginaw or Muncie transmissions, 3 speed (1-1/8" 10 spline) with new bearings, seals, snap rings, and gaskets.. We deliver worldwide and to almost all countries. 3500 T 65 mph or so. sale. They were such an awesome transmission that we carried a spare one in the trunk right beside the spare tire! Truck ratios were 2.99 or 2.97:1 for first, depending on . The four-speed matched with the straight-sixes were 3.11:1, 2.20:1, 1.47-to-1 and 1.00:1. Finding a Saginaw 3 speed with OD is the hard one, due to the fact they are used to make a Saginaw 4 speed with OD; the Saginaw 3 and 4 speeds share the SAME case and main-shaft, that's the reason the upgrade is possible, but even it involves some minor modifications.There are plans on the internet for making a Saginaw 4 speed with OD. Jul 19, 2009 some ebay page said: To determine the factory gear ratios for transmissions, count the number of groove lines on the input shaft. 3-speed; T-85 perhaps). If I could beat them good in 2nd I'd win the race. Although not used in any Chevrolets as original equipment, the T-85 will replace the weaker Saginaw three-speed with minimal installation problems. 544361140 default He told me he did not feel the need for the extra gear and the 3 speed was an HD out of the truck with the deeper 1st gear to launch the car better, with a cast iron case it was much stronger than the aluminum 4 speeds of the day. notably the Muncie M20 wide ratio, M21 close ratio and M22 rock crusher, and automatic fans had either a two-speed Powerglide from 1964 . Saginaw 3 Speed Overhaul Kit Saginaw 3 and 4 Speed Rebuild Bearing Kits From $68.00 Saginaw 3 Spd Racing Gearset Combo, 1.5 Ratio 2nd Saginaw 3 Speed Racing Gearset Input/Cluster Combo, 1.5 Ratio 2nd $275.00 Saginaw 3 Spd 1/R, 2-3 Synchro Slider Saginaw 3 & 4 speed Synchro slider $58.89 Key & spring Kit, Saginaw Saginaw Key/Spring Kit $11.20 General Motors used the in-house Regular Production Option (RPO) code "M15" to identify the three-speed and "M20" for the four-speed. I am Butch/56sedandelivery. I asked him why he used the 3 speed over the Muncie 4 speed. / Rebuilt Saginaw 3 speed (1-1/8" 10 spline) Transmission. Transmission Gear Ratio Chart ~ Gear Ratios are listed for many popular transmissions. The article claims the Borg Warner was used in some Chevy 6 cyl. 1937 Master DeLuxe 2dr sedan, 250 six with 2 deuces and split manifold. We make an adapter to mate this transmission to a Jeep Dana 18 or 20 transfer case SAGINAW 3 SPEED: # OF SHAFT GROOVES 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 0 2.85 1.68 1.0 I run a BB 454/425 with Ford 9 rear at 3:89. To be eligible for a return, your item must be unused and in the same condition that you received it. Hope that helps. 0 Heres a good start. Re: Upgraded gears for saginaw V-8 4 speed VIDEO!! Were sorry if you love a particular transmission not shown on this list. Sale items (if applicable)Only regular priced items may be refunded, unfortunately, sale items cannot be refunded. 1199565182 . Hey Greg, as long as its stock, its pretty straightforward. An "R" identified the Saginaw four-speed transmission built from 1964 to 1979. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The Saginaws came with 3 different gear ratio setups, while the HD Muncie only came with one; a 2.42:1 first gear, 1.58:1 second gear, and 1:1 final drive third. But I use the ZF Black tag early helical gears ( not straight cut of later design) 6spd @ 65mph tachs 1521 rpms Vehicle is a 1934 Ford pickup weight 3800# It also runs the real good on the non ethanol gas, How about the T&C HD 3-speed yes, a Ford box, which was the base transmission in pretty much every GM musclecar? 2.030 4263550061 http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html, http://www.auto-roundup.com/index.php/gto-3-speed-transmission. It used an aluminum case and different gear ratios from the Saginaw 4-speed. Thanks. . from application/x-indesign to application/pdf take offs on hills require i rev the motor . The transmission I have is confirmed via casting numbers as Muncie 3-speed used in a 71 Chevelle with big block, and it is in no way shape or form a toploader or a Ford. [NOTE: Not every transmission in GMs history is listed here. They are as tough as nails, And as Paul Harvey used to say"and now you know the rest of the story", 1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. 2016-11-14T15:32:50-08:00 JavaScript is disabled. Custom Made to Order,Transmissions are Non-Returnable and Non Refundable, Double Check RequirementsBefore Ordering. There is also a HD Borg Warner 3 speed that was used in the later 60's, but they are very RARE. Planning a manual transmission swap in your Chevy or GM vehicle? issue and the tranny listed for the truck is the A833. . I don't see a problem with 3.50's you have useless you feel your feathering the clutch too much or it's killing the engine when take off. In 1974, the last year of initial GTO production, an M11 made by Saginaw became the standard 3-speed, replacing the Muncie M13 that came in GTO's from 1970 to 1973 (both Dearborn and Muncie were similar). Can be used with stock clutch or mini-clutch. I then swapped a 454 in and I run an M-20 and it is much better all around. Saginaw 3-speed, Read more: Transmission Ratios Chart http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-rat-rods/garage-shop-reference-Transmission-Ratios.asp#ixzz4wwRJejBN. My 68 SS396 came with the muncie 3spd in the console. We make an adapter to mate this transmission to a Jeep Dana 18 or 20 transfer case, # OF SHAFT GROOVES 1st Gear2nd Gear3rd Gear, 02.851.681.0, 12.541.501.0, 23.111.841.0, 33.501.891.0, # OF SHAFT GROOVES 1st Gear2nd Gear3rd Gear4th Gear, 02.842.011.351.0, 12.541.801.441.0, 23.112.201.471.0, 33.502.471.651.0, Dates Produced.1966 - 1985, Over All Length.16.125, Input Shaft Spline.1-1/8 10 spline, Pilot Diameter..590, Transmission Weight.90LBS. Transmission Gear Ratio Chart ~ Gear Ratios are listed for many popular transmissions. You bring the gumption. W3i4w4t}/R2CNI4yM6y\\%kuR:Ay&0Fy~RC1g>Z9hMB9s;//?d5[>pVyWYL.W[v~(=1)nrhw+gi+*;;mw;q#96qW8g. Here is one of many articles, it is something you have to dig for and have a clue or two. Additional non-returnable items:* Gift cards* Downloadable software products. The tranny lasted through 3 more motors before I finally traded the car off. Products typically ship out between the same day and 1-3 days. The T5 was produced in a multitude of gear sets, depending on what application it was intended to serve. . A few Saginaws had an extra mounting bolt on a top point above the case. Saginaw three-speed transmissions featured gear ratios of 2.85:1 for first, 1.68:1 for second and 1.00:1 for third when matched with L6 in-line six-cylinder engines. The Font Bureau A forum community dedicated to all Chevy Nova, Chevy II, Acadian owners and enthusiasts. Muncie SM420 transmission 4-speed manual used up to 1967, very similar to sm 465 except small changes to gear ratios and location of reverse. Saginaw Transmission Gear Ratio Identification. Double-check your gear ratios. 4263550061 http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-rat-rods/garage-shop-reference-Transmission-Ratios.asp#ixzz4wwRJejBN. For small-block V-8s, like the 350, the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1. Because the Muncie has so much in common with the T-10 and even similar Saginaw boxes, it is easy to get this guy mixed up with non-Muncie units. 0 I am Butch/56sedandelivery. The last time Studebaker was online was 2014but perhaps he'll make a triumphant return and advise on his post. 0 OpenType - PS adobe:docid:indd:8cb252af-65b8-11e0-ab52-c56984a1fdef 2006 - 2023 Circle Track Supply, Inc.. All rights reserved. Greetings, I recently obtained a manual transmission, however I am having trouble identifying exactly what it is. 02.852.021.351.00, 12.561.811.371.00Third gear on cluster has 25 teeth, 12.561.811.441.00Third gear on cluster has 21 teeth, 23.112.201.471.00, 33.502.481.651.00, , *** The grooves are found on the input shaft. NVG 4500 I think, made in same plant as the Muncie 4 speed back in the day. The body of it is bigger than a typical 3 speed. HWYs}W$!l@v}eR%0J9$$!kK2w98 $13.88 $17.99. We had a guy with a '67 Vette that was running a 427 and the 3 speed Muncie in the 70's. Bob, how about a VEGA 4-speed, with a 3.11 low?